Rob Conery's Blog: Scott Hanselman Is Not a Dick

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Scott Hanselman Is Not a Dick

Wednesday, January 30, 2008 -

In my write up on ASP.NET MVC, I decided to recount my conversation with Scott Hanselman on the subject of the "story" behind ASP.NET MVC. I thought it would be fun to offer some anecdotes, but in doing so I inadvertently left out some context to the stories that ended up making Scott come off as a bit of an a$$hole. Obviously this was not intended - and so as a favor to my friend I thought it would be good to pony up, admit that I blew it, and offer the context of the story so people understand that

I rushed the post and didn't reread it enough - else I would have "rounded" out my Vegas story
Scott's not a dick. No really - he's taught me a lot over the years...

No, he didn't ask me to write this :).

It Doesn't Really Stay In Vegas
Tonite I got a comment on my ASP.NET MVC post that was a bit alarming:

I think your story about Scott makes him *sound* like a tremendously socially awkward jerk, who I would never want to meet in person.

I got on my IM to ping Scott to see what he thought and just as I started to write, Communicator chimes just as my cell phone starts ringing. And it's Scott:

Dude. Pick up.

Scott has some strange powers. Knock Knock Neo... On the phone was Scott and Justice Gray (Justice Scalia's cousin) - the guy who left the comment on my blog. I joked around for a bit, thinking that Scott was having a little fun with me, but I was wrong. Evidently Justice thought that Scott was indeed a dick as described in my story - and emailed him to ask him why this was (I think that was the context). Next thing ya know I'm on the phone with both of them, explaining what indeed happened that night.

Can you explain to Justice the context of that story for me? I sort of came off sounding like a bit of a dick I think...

So I recounted the story completely and we had some good laughs along the way (especially at Justice's expense - his thick Canadian accent is ripe for lame US jokes). As a result I decided to write a follow-up to the story so I can add some context in case anyone else thinks that Scott Hanselman is a dick (which he's not - see the title of this post for reference).

A Controller, Model, and View Walk Into a Bar...
Scott gave a talk at DevConnections on the ASP.NET MVC framework (an intro) in Vegas this last Fall, and during that talk he was asked a series of questions by a member of the audience that bordered on obnoxious.

Being the seasoned speaker that Scott is, he handled them well, and kept the pace of the talk moving along. Undaunted, the guy in the audience - we'll call him "Red Shirt" - kept on Scott during his presentation and actually heckled him. Heckled him mercilessly as a matter of fact - yelling out once that "your jokes aren't funny!".

Again Scott kept the talk moving (funny jokes or not), and at times people around Mr. Red Shirt started to bristle every time he raised his hand. Scott started to look to the other side of the room to politely seek other input - but Mr. Red Shirt was not persuaded. He began to blurt. No hands anymore - just blurting out his thoughts and quips, interrupting Scott during his presentation, making people feel uncomfortable, and ruining the pace of the talk. Very obnoxious indeed.

But fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony...

Fast Forward 6 Hours...
I managed to get upgraded to an unbelievable suite - 2 bedrooms and a full-wall view of the strip. Scott called it my "J Lo Suite". I don't know how/why they gave it to me - but it didn't matter - it was Party Time. I called everyone I knew and said "come on up!" and they did: Phil Haack, Rick Strahl, Jon Galloway, a person who's name I can't remember from Microsoft, Jay Flowers, Scott Hanselman, and Mr. Red Shirt - who came with Jay (now you know why I don't like CI Factory. Just kiddin... :).

We had a great time and the drinks were flowing, and next thing you know we're talking about the talk Scott gave. Mr. Red Shirt wasn't being as obnoxious as he was earlier (in fact he was quite nice)- and Scott thought it would be good to go over some of his questions. The back and forth was a decent debate but soon enough Mr. Red Shirt started to get a little pushy - and this time Scott spoke a little more freely.

A Quick Tangent...
See this is the thing I love about Scott - he seems to have facts in his Brain RAM that are, literally, floating ever-present, ready to be deployed. Millions of em. No, Billions. While we were walking the DevConnections product display floor, Scott spied this piece of hardware from Microsoft that allows you to have 360 degree videa conferences (Microsoft Roundtable). An amazing piece of technology. He tells Phil and me all about it - and proceeds to start telling the Microsoft rep (who's there demoing the thing to people) all about it as well to the point where the rep, literally, whipped out his pad and paper and started to write down what Scott was saying.

Url's flying, numbers, algorithms, processing speeds with pixel assimilation. It was like this at a lot of the booths where we stopped to talk. Scott knows a lot of stuff and is blessed with a freaky memory. When I said I never wanted to debate him - it's for this reason alone. I can't remember much of anything, ever.

And We're Back...
As Scott continued the polite debate with Mr. Red Shirt, it was clear that he wanted to change the subject for fear of losing his cool (he was, after all, heckled mercilessly). Scott rapid-fired some serious geek at Mr. Red Shirt, ending up with how 0^n scale worked, in an effort to close off the conversation. Mr. Red Shirt was so overwhelmed that all he could say was:

"Ummm - yah that's cool. I never thought of it that way..."

And Scott replied:

"That's Comp Sci Baby"

And the room erupted. It wasn't so much that we were laughing AT Mr. Red Shirt... no - it was just the best line anyone could have said at that moment. Short, eloquent, to the point, not mean-spirited... just sort of ... Scott.

Summary I feel bad that I didn't reread my post enough to see that I should have added some more context here. I thought the story was pretty funny but clearly I was too rushed to see that I probably offended a friend. All in all Scott was a good sport about it all and never mentioned anything to me - a very good sport. Moral of the story: reread your posts. At least 5 or 6 times or you might get a call sometime when you least expect it...

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Richard bushnell - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Rob, Anyone who listens to Scott's podcast (http://www.hanselminutes.com) can tell he's a decent bloke. He knows a lot, but also gives others the chance to talk too. He's done exactly that with me recently. He even takes time to e-mail complete strangers (me) over what some might consider trivialities (my blog posts). Not a lot of people with 20,000 blog subscribers would bother to do that. I don't know him personally, and he definitely didn't ask me to defend him. No proof necessary then. Regards, Richard

Scott Hanselman - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - You're very kind to have written this and cleared things up. However, I will tease you about this whole affair for at least 5 years. ;) Thanks, buddy.

Rob Conery - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - @Richard - see that's what I figured and when Scott called me tonite I was certain he was joking! But he wasn't, and as I reread the post with an eye of someone who doesn't read his blog or listent to his podcasts it sort of hit me... @Scott - shit, I knew I'd end up indentured somehow when I took this job.

mike - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Wha? I recently removed Scott's blog because of the amount of personal posts, now this blog too?

Scott Hanselman - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Mike, are you kidding?

Rob - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Rob, I think its great that you wrote this to clear things up. One of the things I love about blogs is the personal side of it (contrary to Mike's comments). It shows that real people can be great geeks. Scott does seem like a great guy, I enjoy his podcasts, and emailed him recently to thank him for the amount he has contributed to my productivity and thought-train. He's a smart man. Being a young dev that I am, I want experienced dev's that I can look up to and learn from, and he really fits the bill. He even took the time out to reply to my mail in person thanking for the comments. Now, I'm a nobody in the dev world, and similar to Richard Bushnell's comments, he is very much a name. He knows it, we know it. We also know he's not a dick ;)

LiQ - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - "It shows that real people can be great geeks." I'd rather say that it shows that great geeks can be real people :D From hearing the first minute of a Hanselminutes-podcast I could instantly tell that you're a great person.

Joe Brinkman - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - I have this theory that Scott is not really human. I remember at one point when Scott's guard was down that he let on to his true identity which fully explains his amazing font of knowledge. Take a gander at the photo taken by a secret camera that appears at the bottom of this page (http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BlueBadge.aspx). I have also heard that he is wired 24/7 to comoputers. Sure, he says its for his blood sugar monitoring, but that seems to be an awefully convenient excuse. So you are wise not to get into an argument with someone who is clearly a part of the "collective".

Justice~! - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - "thick Canadian accent?" I think someone's US accent might be getting in the way there! ;) Good chatting with you last night BTW. Was a lot of fun. My offer to grab you a drink or two next time we are in the same place at the same time still stands!

Shawn Oster - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Am I the only one that *didn't* think Scott came off sounding like a prick in Rob's previous post? The situation sounded perfectly valid to me and I applauded Scott's handling of it because there are just those people that want to argue a point to death and really, there are better things to do in Vegas. Wait, does that make me a dick because I saw nothing wrong with it? (or does that make everyone else thin-skinned over-sensitive wussies *BIG GRIN*)

I do agree with needing to re-read posts over a few times, I know I've dropped comments more than a few times that'll I'll go back to later and re-read and realize I came off sounding way more critical, angry or "dickish" than I ever intended. I'm always taking the piss when talking to people and I don't think certain jokes, sarcasm or "playing it straight" really come through as well in written form, at least when being penned by me.

Carl - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - "Mike, are you kidding?"

Too late.... lol

Ian Hughes - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - @Mike that is a matter of personal taste I guess. I have heard people complain about Eric Sink and others for peppering a "software oriented" blog with personal anecdotes. To remove someone for that reason I think is really cutting yourself short. In essence, it's your loss, dude. We all approach problems differently and there generally exists more than one way to do anything. Sometimes, understanding what makes a person tick offers insight into their methodology. In turn you have a better chance of kind of making their solutions "your own", I guess. When I follow behind in someone else's code who I have worked with; I know them, their habits, and style of thinking. Makes contrasting how you do things and they do things easier. Helps to make all things be equal, if you will. @Scott, I really could not for the life of me see where people interpreted Rob's initial post as portraying you in a dickish-light. I, however, do think you were a dick for having your Dad on hanselminutes. Geez who puts their poor father in the hot seat like that?! :P

Frans Bouma - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - *ditches red shirt deep in the trashcan* ;) seriously, this post was a great read. :) You should write novels :)

Rob Conery - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Thanks Frans :). @mike - I don't tell many people to take a hike, but in this case I'll make an exception... delete me from your reader please.

Latish Sehgal - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Great post!! I am an avid blog reader (mostly dot net stuff), and its nice to know more about the blogger once in a while. As far as Scott interviewing his dad on hanselminutes and similar posts/podcasts are concerned, I must say that i respect and look up to these people (Scott, Rob..), and knowing some of these things inspires me to work harder and reminds me that these people did not achieve success in life by chance or by luck. The technical posts and podcasts are of course very helpful, but most of these guys are producing them with such consistent quality and regularity that i have to remind myself often how hard they must be working behind the scenes to be so knowledgeable. This really hit me when i tried my hands at blogging myself. Great work guys!! Please keep it up.

Ben - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Ditto on the podcast. (I also do not know him)

Listen to hanselminutes and you'll know that Scott is pretty cool.

David Fauber - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Good of you to print this. I came away with the impression that he was kind of a dick from the first article also.

Scott Hanselman - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Ian Hughes - :P Heh, I mentioned the idea to my dad and he was cool with it, and he ended up having fun. Now the wife wants to come on the show...now what do I do?

Joe Chung - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Hmm, I wonder if mike was wearing a red shirt before he quit your blog...

Mohammad Azam - Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - Hi, I think Scott is just awesome. I have learned a lot from Scott's blog and Podcasts. I even enjoy his personal posts. I can't wait to meet Scott at the MVP Summit. Scott! You da man

Steve - Thursday, January 31, 2008 - I did not get the impression that SH was a DH... never would. Mike on the other hand.

I really enjoy the personal posts, although sometimes when I tell my wife about them she thinks I am a stalker. But as we are currently building a new home and I work from home and left a small company to work for a ginormous USA company after creating some really cool software for them I find that both of you have posted some really close to home stories and given me great ideas, so mike can get stuffed. I think you both have the perfect mix where Scott Gu on the other hand does he have a personal life ? poor guy.

Oh next time can I get an invite to the J Lo suite.

Scott - Thursday, January 31, 2008 - So when you guys type 0^n scale, are you talking about big/little O notation (e.g. O(n) O(log n) etc...). Or is this yet another complex and relevant term that Scott H. will casually drop into tech conversations the same way teenagers drop "like" that I need to search for online? Is there an "O to the nth power" rule? :)

Dan - Thursday, January 31, 2008 - Hmm... "A" reads your blog, *thinks* you made "B" out to be dickish, leaves you a comment, THEN A emails B and says "hey, why are you a dick?" I think I know who the dick is in this story.

Ian Hughes - Thursday, January 31, 2008 - @Scott - Well, while I am not married I am still very much bound to the WAF (w:woman) when considering purchases. Sure, there are plenty of sources advertising how to increase your ROI but what about raising the WAF, I say!? A show with your wife on living with a geek and maybe some tips to geeks on how to increase the WAF on potential purchases would be awesome. That would be the sort of show where geeks could remove their headphones and play the show on speakers exclaiming, "See, you're not alone!! . . . . . . Now what are your thoughts about me hacking apart our Wii-motes to try out some of those cool Johnny Chung Lee projects? Hmmmm?"

Scott Hanselman - Thursday, January 31, 2008 - @Scott:LazyCoder - yes, Rob means O(n) vs. O(log n), the original conversation was about linear vs. binary vs. hash searches.

@MoAzam - Thanks!

@IanHughes - You know, I've got to get Johnny Chung on the show. He's my hero.

Ian Hughes - Thursday, January 31, 2008 - Johnny Chung is awesome. That would certainly be an instant hit episode if you put it together. On top of everything though; it's always nice to not only come across someone who does really amazing work and shares, but has written and presentational skills. He is one of those types of internet personalities that come across as approachable always have a big impact on the developer community at large and piques new interests. You know, the kind. The hyper-intelligent un-dicks. :)

Scott Hanselman - Friday, February 01, 2008 - Ian - I've just emailed Johnny, so wish me luck!

mike kidder - Friday, February 01, 2008 - Scott is an awesome person.... met him briefly at Boise DUG meeting where he presented.. When I heard he was presenting, I was very excited... Scott is celebrity status.... Hollywood BABY... Showed him a medical portal we had developed for the local hospital. I had setup a secure query string (3DES) to stream Medical transcriptions from our backend server to PDF. Scott was interested enough to say, "send me the code, I would like to see that". Unfortunately, I never did get around to sending it. And I could have been famous, invited into a Podcast, got my picture taken in front a fire truck. Of course, maybe Scott was saying... "Comp Sci Baby" to himself.... I promise I wasn't wearing a Red Shirt.... :) I seriously don't see how you guys find the time to work, play, blog, podcast, travel, vacation, code, provide cross commentary... but PLEASE keep it up. Sean... you have great writing skills... I would buy the book... Pakala.... I can't wait!

Bil Simser - Friday, February 08, 2008 - Who is this Scott Hanselman you speak of and why on Earth would he be talking about model railroading? Sheesh. I too thought this to be a technical blog but now we're talking about thick Canadian accents and red shirts.

I don't remember *any* of this in my comp sci baby classes, but then again that was so many beers ago I don't remember much of anything these days ;)

Scott Hanselman Is Not a Dick

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